Mapping the Maze of Mental Well-being During the Festive Fog

Navigating the peculiar stretch of time between Christmas and New Year's can feel like wandering through a maze without a clear exit. Join us as we explore this holiday haze, dissecting the dissonance of disrupted routines and family dynamics that can often teeter on a tightrope. Amidst these candid discussions, my personal journey with ADHD comes to light, providing an honest backdrop to the technical hiccups that recently peppered our podcast. We recount that our guest last week  Kathy, brought her own poignant perspectives on religious communities, drawing from her experiences with figures like Jack Hyles and sparking reflection on the influence of faith and leadership in our lives.

Relationships, especially the bonds between siblings, come under the microscope in this episode, as we peel back the layers of their complex influence on mental health. I don't shy away from sharing the raw edges of my battles with PTSD and panic attacks. We probe the potential roots of sibling strife and its amplified emotional weight during the holidays, revealing an intimate look at how these connections can evolve, or unravel, far from what we once envisioned in childhood. The role of therapists becomes even more critical in these moments, and we discuss the heightened demand for their support as they help steer us through these emotional whirlpools.

Access to mental health care stands as a daunting tower many struggle to scale, and in this episode, we confront the harsh realities of systemic and financial barriers that loom large. I recount the alarming quest to secure assistance for roommate one  in crisis, a tale that unearths the chilling inadequacies within our healthcare framework. We also consider the lingering scars left by PTSD and past traumas, underscoring the significance of support systems in the healing process. This dialogue extends a hand to anyone grappling with similar challenges, hoping to foster a greater understanding and shared compassion for those navigating the tumultuous seas of mental health.

Thanks for listening! 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. Okay, so this week's been just fucking weird. Everything's been weird, everybody's been weird your eyebrows, but I always feel like the week between Christmas and New Year's is like a wash week, like Nobody's out, people don't know, jerks or pissed off, or yeah, I guess, I'm not sure. I don't know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. I think it's weird. Yeah, it's weird. Definitely felt the weird.

Speaker 2: 1:02

So much shit, so much shit. And like I think it's because like people are getting together with their families, so they're all pissed off. I don't know, Trauma? I don't either. I have a really weird work week Because I mean yeah, I will catch up on other stuff, or you know, I've got a million other things I can always do, but it's weird. It's a weird work week for me, for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:25

It's a weird work week, um, so we should briefly just recap and I still don't know, sound wise, what happened with the end of the interview. I need to look it up. I just haven't had to like literally focus. I'm so ADHD right now, like I cannot focus on one thing and yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:44

I need to look it up and see if I spliced off some of the audio for to finish that accidentally. I don't know what happened, so I need to look at it again and I know I have the files. I'm just like, yeah, so if you listen to our last podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:58

The last minute Was it ended very abruptly. Listen to it and I was like, wait a minute, we're missing like a little bit. Anyway, kathy was telling us about her, you know plans, and it just kind of cut off at the very end. But it was really fun to talk to her and To do that interview and it's so. It's so interesting to talk to someone who's been in the same situations as you.

Speaker 1: 2:27

Her's, hers were very different, but still a similar, you know, and Certainly nuances between the groups and stuff I got, because we were such an outlier in the outlier thing like I just got stuck with blood test draw.

Speaker 1: 2:47

We were the outliers. I Do you think we were a little bit removed from the whole like movement and jack hiles and like like we had moments where we were a part of it, but it's almost like it was. It wasn't as though I think it was that they saw him out. He didn't think that like Dean Miller at Cornerstone, I think a lot of the other guys like saw out jack hiles to like go like train and it was the opposite. I think in our case, like we just got big enough and made enough splash that it was the other way around. So then people started reaching out to Dean Miller. Then the opposite, where most of the other big guys like the big churches, like the one here in Southern California, northern California, florida, you know Breanne and Trinity and all those like they went there and they were already a part of it and then it was like we got pulled into it, but I don't think it was willingly, if that makes any sense, I think.

Speaker 2: 3:51

I think he also thought we were too good for hiles, Even like we were better than hiles. Yeah, because there's that element of you're not good we were more strict than hiles. He let a lot of things go that we didn't. And yeah, it was different because even when you went to college there you notice some of the standards were a little bit more. Oh for sure, there was less than what we were raised in.

Speaker 1: 4:17

You know, there was kids that grew up with television Right to wear pants. Kids that got to date in high school and it was chaperoned and stuff. But it wasn't completely off limits until after you were out of high school. Yeah and yeah. There were even like less time spent at church or they went to public school. Some of the kids went to public schools.

Speaker 2: 4:43

They did church school and very Cross Matt mix cross swath of all of yeah, and I think whenever we were in high school is when we were More aware of Jack hiles more than anywhere, because we would go to the youth conferences.

Speaker 1: 5:02

That's partly due to Michelle Miller and Brian. No, because we went way before she was ever a part of that, but then it became bigger deal it became bigger, sure, but we went to Pastor school and we would do all of those things.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Um, because she didn't come into the picture until I was at a high school, okay, um yeah, I only I don't.

Speaker 1: 5:27

I think I only went to like One pastor school, maybe two youth conferences, um, okay, so it was big with Matt.

Speaker 2: 5:36

Yeah, he was the youth pastor at the time when I seventh grade. I went seventh grade, eighth grade, pretty much most of my High school years. We went to, you know, the youth conference, which was, you know, thousands of teenagers in one place, right, getting saved again and, you know, called to be a pastor's wife.

Speaker 1: 6:00

It would be like a shopping, a pedophile shopping spree yeah. Window shop yes.

Speaker 2: 6:10

Yes, the ultimate opportunities. Anyway, we're all the sickos.

Speaker 1: 6:16

We I'm Rachel, I'm Liz, um, we. So we had a couple things to talk about today and we're gonna keep it brief today. Um, I'm Getting on a flight in a bit. I and I just felt I was like I'm so stressed out I don't even want to do this, but I was like, no, actually it's probably good, because you know this is our therapy. The more you don't want to do, you should probably do it. Yeah, but we were gonna talk a little bit about holidays, like and I think we already did like it just kind of like there's a blues thing that happens because it's all hyped up, and then it happened.

Speaker 2: 6:54

Like, and then there's like a letdown. Oh, it's like it's over what now? Yeah, I'm graduating.

Speaker 1: 7:00

You're like okay, so anti climactic. What do I fucking do now?

Speaker 1: 7:04

You know, there's this whole ceremony and it's a it's a ceremony and then you're like, okay, what do we do now? Everybody's looking around awkwardly, yeah, like holiday wise, but we were gonna discuss mental health. But the funny thing is is like I would say, my, my therapist, and then like psych, psychiatrist and then like medical professionals, are all just like slammed. Anyone in the mental health is like completely slammed right now. I believe that like my therapist was like I can't book you out. Like I can book you out in like a month. He's like literally I am full, you know much the whole month of December through the mid-January time, because everybody flips out right now and I don't know if it's again. I'm like is it family? Is it just we're sick?

Speaker 2: 7:52

I mean I I flipped out a little bit last week. I was like in this funk of depression and I don't, I'm not a, I'm not prone to depression, but I have moments of depression. I understand depression because I've lived with people in my life who have depression and so I understand what it is. So I think I have like bouts of depression. But last week was tough for me, I don't know why, and I think you know the holidays maybe. I feel like my kids roommate one, two and three are all fighting right now and so that really kills me, like it. It literally does, and I and and I wish you know and I go well, can you just get along for one day for me. But, um, they say for their mental health they need to not be around a different family member, whatever their sister. So that literally destroys me because they can't imagine, um, like not having a good relationship with my sister. I mean, like I said, we've had moments, obviously, but you're hard.

Speaker 1: 8:57

I think Randy was right, like what he talked about with that for that issue you know about like well, they don't, they don't need each other like, yeah, so, yeah, what he said was so because I, I, you know they have fought since they were young.

Speaker 2: 9:14

Right, well, I had, and we fought when we were young. Yeah, I think once we got into high school age, we were more of each other's allies instead of like each other's enemy and mine seemed to Be the enemy. They like, hold grudges and they um, they hold things that people say extremely personal and and Take it to heart and then, you know, cut people off completely With each other and everything, and so it's really hard. But Randy said, I think the reason that our kids, that you and your sister, have such a better Relationship than like our kids do and I hope that they grow out of it and I hope that they get past their issues and they're able to get along, because having a sister is like such an amazing blessing but Is because you guys needed each other to survive. Yeah, our kids never needed each other to survive. I don't think, um, we provided everything they needed. Um, we, rachel, I dug their trash cans together, together. I mean we literally like um, you know there's so you're talking about many things, right?

Speaker 1: 10:34

Yeah, so we had an element of survival and they're prioritizing scarcity. So we had to band together if we were gonna actually like survive, like to make money and buy it, and Like basic human rights. They're prioritizing the scarcity of their relationships with their sisters. Um, my partner's brother got killed in a car accident suddenly six years ago. Okay, now that prioritization of scarcity would come right, smack dab in the face. You know where that to happen? To a sibling period, right?

Speaker 1: 11:21

No, and so, like I go to, those are the extremes you know what I mean. Like exactly survival, you know, prioritizing oh, I don't want this person in my life, like that's. You're making it a point to prioritize them being in your life. So that's scarcity and I'm like, but, yeah, well, what happens when they're gone? Then you can no longer do that and you realize how silly it is, you know, even if, for, you know the compromises that we have made with some of our family members To stay in at least a somewhat, you know, amicable, you know Relationship of some kind, right, I mean, and there's always compromises.

Speaker 2: 12:07

I feel like right, so you just have to be. It can't all come from one person. There's always that there has to be a little bit, but sometimes the other person's not gonna compromise at all and you have to say, okay, so I either, like, don't have a relationship or I compromise a little bit and you know, be civil. I mean, there's so many people that I Mean technically cut off out of my life. I have cut people out of my life, but if they were out of family function I Would still be civil. But I think that's maybe age and growth and you know things like that.

Speaker 1: 12:53

Um, Life is short. I mean honestly it is.

Speaker 2: 12:58

We've discussed that before, though it's just like it's hard. It's hard as a mother to see your children I can't imagine Like so at odds with each other. It's very hard and I don't. And so, anyway, I was struggling last week with that because we've spent most of our holidays together. There's been a couple where, like I think, once when roommate one was at college her first semester, like she was there for Thanksgiving, you know, and then there's been, I think, one Christmas she wasn't here because she was living in a different state. So there's been a few times we haven't been together, but it wasn't because I don't want to be around that person.

Speaker 1: 13:40

Right.

Speaker 2: 13:41

And so that this was like the first time when it was like, well, I don't want to be over there if they're there, and blah, blah blah. That was really. It really weighed on me a lot. And just also, you know, you have clients, I have amazing clients, I also have some that like Not so amazing yeah. I just feel like they and they're all loyal. I can't say they're not loyal, they are, but sometimes I just don't feel. I just wasn't feeling appreciated, I guess yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:22

Well, we talk about it too. Like you have this, and I think I understand it a little bit. I mean, it's your feelings, it's your feels, it's not mine. Yeah, but you have this really strong desire to be needed. Oh for sure. I think it's partly like being the oldest and having people rely on you you know what I mean To make decisions, that you're counted on for stuff, yeah, and then also having three girls. You know who, for most of the last 25, 6 years, needed you Great.

Speaker 2: 15:02

Yeah, no, I definitely think that that's an issue. I think it used to come across as like people pleasing, because I was like I wanted to feel needed so I would do whatever anybody wants, and I've grown out of that. But I do feel more fulfilled when somebody needs me and I can fix their problem. Yes, it's more of a fixer than needed maybe, but I definitely always want to fix the problem. I do appreciate being needed. So, yeah, that's definitely true. I think I have grown out of the people pleasing phase because that is something that I used to live by and I wanted everybody to be happy in. Well, I would do whatever I've been to over backwards for multiple people throughout my life and they would not I mean, they wouldn't, you know throw water on me if I was on fire. You know, and you learn that the hard way.

Speaker 1: 16:06

That's a, I mean, it's progress, right, because it's like the differences, that the actions are different. You know people pleasing, you're doing things, even if you agree with who you are, and now you're kind of like, well, I still want you know, to make sure everyone's happy. But I also have a limit to what I'm going to do about it.

Speaker 2: 16:26

Or what.

Speaker 1: 16:28

I don't know. Yeah, I have similar tendencies, for sure. Well, you've had some stuff going on too, though. Yeah, and I have a lot more. I don't give a fuck about me, I don't give a fuck about me, I don't give a fuck about me, and I think that that's partly also due to circumstances, and At some point I, you know, I'm like, nope, I can't, can't do that, so I'm not going to. And also, I don't really care. That's Difference of personality too, and you know, yes, but we have similar character traits in that, if we can, we will, both of us do things. You know, we have different types of personality and I think I have it strong too. I just don't think it's as much as you. Yeah, I had A massive panic attack on yeah, sunday night of last week that I haven't had one in, probably let's try to think it's probably been like six or seven years, I think it might be a little bit longer than that and the yeah, it just caught me off guard.

Speaker 1: 17:42

I wasn't. I haven't had one in so long, and I used to get them much more often. And this is, you know, when you have, when you have abuse, when you're in abusive situations as a kid. It kind of sticks with you and in my case it's like complex PTSD, so it presents itself and rears its ugly head every once in a while. I used to be a lot more adept at handling them because they happen more frequently.

Speaker 1: 18:13

So it's kind of like you know, if you go out and ride a bike, you know you get used to it and you get really good at it and you understand the rules of the road and you know, you know what intersections to look for. And then you know you wait 10 years and then you go hop on the bike. You can't expect that. You're gonna just you're gonna know how to ride the bike but you're not gonna remember to be careful at this intersection. And then you know the roads have probably changed a little bit and so different potholes in different places. So it's the same, you know. Using that analogy, I had the tools. I know how to deal with them, but it was rusty right. So you know I did. One of the really cool things about it is that because I've had a lot of therapy, I do have a toolbox of stuff that. So this is the first time that it's happened with a long-term romantic partner, with them at like being in the same space and having it happen in real time with them.

Speaker 1: 19:17

So, often it's never been with a partner, or they have not been, they've been gone, or it's a different situation, but this was real time happening with a, you know, a long-term, serious partner, and one of the really cool things is that I was able to, even though I'm having this and you know I can't describe it other than feeling like your life is in danger and that there are, you know, forces around you that you have no control over and you feel as if you're going to die.

Speaker 1: 19:52

Yeah, that's what it feels like, but there's no real place it's coming from or people that are chasing you. It's just that sensation, yes, and, but in real time, I was able to at least let my partner know this is what's happening right now, and I'm going to need a minute and here's what's going on and here's what I think, and this is what's happening right now, like play by play, which was really hard to do, but I also knew that he was losing it too and that I needed to make sure that he knew that this was just an incident and it was singular and that, you know, really, him being around had nothing to do with it at all. Yeah, and that's me having, you know, have experiencing this thing and that there was no correlation or causation really that could have. You know he was in no wrong here and that I was trying to talk him through. You know he didn't trigger this for you, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:53

I'm seeing someone going through this and not really dealing with it. I mean the really. The other really interesting part is that he works with special ed kids and he's seen a lot of shit. You know what I mean. He's had mild, severe and moderate kids, you know, that are all over the spectrum in terms of their disability or their issues, and I mean right. So it wasn't as though this wasn't as like you know, it wasn't as though he's been sitting under a log and he doesn't understand that. They're strong, yeah, yeah. But also it was, I think, helpful for him to have me vocalizing what was going on in the time at the time, and then you know, we can talk about it, because it is mental health awareness or, I'm sorry, mental health care restriction month, because nobody's around, because everybody needs mental health care right now.

Speaker 1: 21:50

But it is worth mentioning that these are, these are the consequences of what an independent fundamental Baptist church and that environment bring. These are the direct result of this, absolutely this type of thing, and they don't just last in the moment. The moment is acute, right, it's acute, it happens, it's boom, it's there, and then you have to sit there and sort through the rest of it Like a giant dump truck of laundry just got dumped there and you have to fucking sort through the whites and the colors and the wools and the right. So you have to sit with that dump truck of shit that just got poured on top of your head, yep, for however long it takes to sort through it, and that I've had times in my life where they've lasted up to a year, and what I mean by lasted is that the results or the effects of it last that long. I discuss this at length because it sucks, because I like food and I like wine and I like good food and good wine, right, and there's just residuals, are like you're always on edge.

Speaker 1: 23:06

I'm hyper alert constantly, all the time. Now there's this constant sense of dread that just goes through you when you go outside, even in the house. Sometimes I feel it where I'm just freaking out about nothing at all. And then there's like body temperature dysregulation. So you get really, really hot all of a sudden. Explain why and it's not a hot flash pot, I know these are worse and or you just get freezing cold all of a sudden. So there's body temperature dysregulation.

Speaker 1: 23:35

There's, I have a constant. I'm not nauseous, but it feels like I'm about to be nauseous all the time. So it's like the lightest version of morning sickness, but 24 hours a day, dry mouth, itchy, watery eyes, very, very hyper, sensitive, like emotionally, physically, like my body hurts. It aches all over. The first two days afterward I just felt as though I had been hit by a dump truck.

Speaker 1: 24:07

So physical pain like in your bones, in every your organs, like not headaches, cause I don't think I've really ever had a headache, but these weird splurges of electricity that go up the back of your head and then sometimes just whack you right in the forehead like you've been slain with the spirit. So there's all these weird like physical things that happen that you have to go. Oh, I know why that's happening right now because I'm still, my body is traumatized and my brain was traumatized and it's just residual effects of it's. It's literal aftershocks. But and again, you can't predict when these will happen I might never have another one again, right, I might have another one next week. I might not have another one for another 10 years. I don't know. It's unpredictable. You don't never know when it's gonna happen. And it's kind of like living with someone who's got a grenade and they're about to pull a pin out of it.

Speaker 2: 25:10

I fear I live in a fear of having one because I've had a few and the feeling and you're, the residuals that you described are so accurate, like just ridiculous, but I Constantly have that in my brain. It's been a couple years since I've had one, but the the fear of having Real, yeah, and and after you have one, you're, I mean it lessens as the time goes it does.

Speaker 1: 25:45

That's what I said.

Speaker 2: 25:46

Yeah, I've had it is a legit career, because it is it's so hard to describe it. You did a pretty good job, I think so.

Speaker 1: 25:56

I mean, I've had enough of them. I should be able to describe it at this point.

Speaker 2: 26:00

Yeah, um, it's hard to describe to someone who's never had one. I think I did a good job, though I think you did. I think you did a great job.

Speaker 1: 26:09

Um, this late feeling that you're gonna die for absolutely no reason, yes, I think there's not a mastodon chasing you, but it feels like there sure is a fucking herd of up right something is coming for you.

Speaker 1: 26:24

You have no idea what yeah, and, and the odd part about that is if you can self realize within that moment it's like no, it's me, I'm the problem, it's me. Right, that's, this is coming from me, not from outside sources. Right, it's like it's so internalized because that's where it's coming from. It's not, your life is not in danger. Right, yeah, you're gonna be fine. Yes, yeah, um, I Think I. Yeah, we discussed this a little bit, but yeah, um, I'm cracking up when we're talking about this, thinking about Kathy's comment last week about you're not allowed to have mental health. Like that's just not like no, when you, when you checked in, that is not a box. You cannot check that box, you know so we're gonna give you a bunch of household chores and you're gonna be so Overwhelmed with so much work that you can't have mental health.

Speaker 2: 27:20

Oh my god, I related to that. It's so true, oh my god.

Speaker 1: 27:32

And, um, yeah, we've had plenty of mental health stuff in our family, but again, you know, I think the first whatever you know, 18 years of my life, we didn't discuss it, you know it was no, she definitely had depression he had so much and of course it was undiagnosed or untreated Because the church was the answer.

Speaker 2: 27:59

But as kids we didn't know what depression looks like. Yeah, looking back, oh yeah, we're like, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:14

Yeah, yeah, but I mean, in your sense she's gotten, you know, professional help and yeah, I Mean working on it. It's something you don't really get cured of, but you can certainly. Continuously work on it, yeah well, and it's you know some at. Sometimes you have to just Calm the symptoms you know and at.

Speaker 1: 28:40

Sometimes you can start to work on it, and sometimes you just ignore it because you're too busy, and sometimes you it's lapsed you in the face and you go. Oh yeah, I mean, the odd thing about this one for me too, is that I'm currently in therapy, like and I kind of knew I needed to be, and I'm not sure exactly why, but this year has been rough. Um, this year has been a lot of triggers. I've handled it relatively well, but again, I do Appreciate the fact that I have someone I can't talk to about it. Um, and I knew that that that this year was hard and that's why I started resuming therapy. And again, we have an as needed basis for me, right, because I do have all these complex and varying issues. But you kind of do know when, when you're you're, you're at the point of can I handle this? Yeah, you know, I don't know if I'm asking myself that, then that's the time that I know, okay, you might start to get, make some time for yourself and get in, because otherwise you're gonna lose it, you know, on a client or your kid or your sister, you know

Speaker 1: 29:47

or someone nearby which doesn't Support anyone. It doesn't help. You know, mm-hmm, you need to take care of you so you can take care of everyone around you. Hey, which is one reason why I'm curious why you haven't, because I'm like, if you, you know, you want to take care of everyone, you got to take care of you first. You know, it's like put your own oxygen mask on first. Well, I know um, but that's one of the the best things that you did um in Terms of roommate to is that as soon as you identified the issue, you got you got help like immediately. Of course, part of the part of my long-term mental health Precariousness Is because I didn't get help until you know. Yeah, the fact, sure, and that that is Medically documented and shown to be very, very true that the sooner you can get in, you know with these things, the better right.

Speaker 2: 31:02

Well, let's talk about the insane cost of getting mental health, mm-hmm, and the difficulty. Yes, and getting mental health, because that is for fucking real and Not does that.

Speaker 1: 31:22

So there's cost, mm-hmm. There's challenge with finding the correct therapist for you and, oh yeah, someone who is not in their best mental Is there what? Not in their best mental state capacity sure is not in a position To be hunting and pecking and looking for someone who fits them correctly, or having to jump hurdles and loops, yeah, insurance systems and in network, out of network, and cause, oh yeah, to be. It's set up for failure, which is a hundred percent um, it's, it's so bad.

Speaker 2: 32:07

My roommate one, um, has struggled in her adult life a lot with things that have happened to her from people who love her and, you know, unknown people as well. But she struggles with a lot of things and she is prone to depression big time. Yeah, and so I don't know, six months ago or so, probably longer than that, she had a breakdown where she needed some help. I mean bad, and so me being the fixer, I'm like, well, let me get you some help. So I mean I got on the phone. Of course there's no facilities in Oklahoma, or anywhere close to here.

Speaker 2: 33:08

I was on the phone for hours with this yeah, that's just for women, right, there's no only women facilities. She's a young girl who doesn't want to be in a coed situation with a bunch of men who are also having mental health issues. So I'm like, well, let's figure this out. So I got a hold of this one place and they said oh my gosh, you guys bring her here, blah, blah, blah. Worst decision ever.

Speaker 2: 33:36

Probably because she has trauma from her mental health experience. You know where she was trying to get help. Not one bit of help. She was there for, I'm going to say, six days and talk to one psychologist for about 10 minutes who all he did was prescribe her a shit ton of drugs she didn't even know why she was taking. They made her think that she was crazy. She got personally attacked by a fellow person in the mental facility. It was the world's biggest nightmare, I'm not kidding. It was absolutely freaking awful, and we couldn't even get her out, because I did find a place where my roommate too went to, a place in California. That was incredible. I cannot say enough good things about.

Speaker 2: 34:32

Also extremely expensive, also extremely expensive. Thank God for insurance, because there was no way in how we would have ever afforded it otherwise. I mean it was several thousand dollars, you know, up front, and then a little bit more as we went on. But I mean our insurance was, I think, like six to fifteen thousand dollars a day, like that's how much it costs for good mental health, unfortunately. But I did find a place where she could go and the place in Oklahoma would not allow her to get on a plane and go get help from from somewhere else where they were just holding her, yeah, where people were standing over her breathing in her face, like all of the horrors that she experienced there. It was freaking awful. I'm sure I don't know everything, but the things she told me absolutely awful, and she learned to play the game to get out of there, basically well, and what does that teach you?

Speaker 1: 35:31

I mean, it teaches you not to seek mental health absolutely, that's exactly what it does.

Speaker 2: 35:36

It teaches you that you can't trust people, you can't trust doctors, you can't trust you know all these things and she deals with that and she says that she can't trust doctors, she doesn't want to do therapy, all of these things because of such a bad experience. But I don't know of another state that's this bad, but Oklahoma is rough.

Speaker 1: 36:01

I think most states are that bad, or at least, yeah, I think I think that's true. There's only a couple that have like really worked on it, and those are few and far between. And it costs money and people aren't willing to pay money because, well, in a lot of places mental health is not considered health.

Speaker 2: 36:17

No, it's not considered health on our insurance. It's not covered at all. Like, mental health does not count, that does not, has nothing to do with anything, right? Um, if, if you're admitted, yes, into a place, that's the only way it can be considered, um, it can be considered covered by insurance. So I mean, and before we had insurance before, because my other girls I mean all my kids have been in therapy at one point or another. Yeah, briefly, um, but one of them more intense, obviously. But when we did have insurance that did cover partial mental health, it was still out of pocket $180 a visit, yeah, which is just ridiculous. It's insane. Who can afford that? That's like a mortgage payment a month.

Speaker 1: 37:10

Well, it go once a week it, then, only then, it favors the wealthy yeah absolutely, which this entire country favors the wealthy.

Speaker 2: 37:20

Who are we kidding here?

Speaker 1: 37:21

like well, yeah they're real, but people keep voting in these assholes that just make it easier for people to get wealthier, and it's like you're voting against your own interests. What the fuck yeah?

Speaker 2: 37:35

it's really sad, but this is where we're at?

Speaker 1: 37:38

I know we just turned this into an advertisement for um. What are the ones out there like talk, talk, space, whatever, I don't know we should get it called shortly from them.

Speaker 2: 37:54

I mean, even though, like better health, it's like you can put it on that one like the website say they, uh, I probably shouldn't say that name, but you know some of the advertisements like do virtual, you know health, it's free, it's not free. I know none of it's free. No, um, if you have insurance, if you have, yes, if you have state funded insurance, you know you can cover, you know most of it, but then you're waiting on a list of like yeah, and people and you're like I'm right, and by the time you find someone your issue may have passed or you're dead.

Speaker 1: 38:36

Thing is then you're not matched up with the therapist that actually works for you and I absolutely determine it on what their training is. Um, I had a point in my life where I wouldn't see anyone who was like you don't understand, and this was before any of the hype came out with like let us pray, you know, in the movement, um, but I couldn't. No therapist really understood me and no day to day I have yet to find a therapist who actually gets it and understands right meant and what I grew up in. Yeah, I have had to start to play the game a little bit. So I come into a new therapy setup or with a new therapist and I have to talk in their terms, to explain to them what I have, what I've been like, and then I give them like the elevator pitch, because it's annoying as hell to have to relive your trauma with every new therapist you go to, because that's what happens.

Speaker 1: 39:33

And then people get like hang on, I might have to end this quick we're hanging here okay, um, anyway, yeah, we might have to say goodbye, I'm here in a second, but anyway, yeah, because I gotta go get on the flight here. But point being is it's expensive but it's worth it. If you can get therapy, it is worth it.

Speaker 2: 40:09

I definitely don't think. There's many people who have said I regret getting therapy, yeah, and I mean I'm gonna say my roommate one will say that, but she really didn't get therapy. She got held in a holding place. Yes, she got held in a facility. She was not given any help, yeah, by an actual therapist at all.

Speaker 1: 40:32

Right, and that's 90% of the time what happens with people, so they just give up and then yeah, I mean because it's hard and it shouldn't be that hard.

Speaker 2: 40:39

If you're struggling with your mental health, it should be more accessible. Absolutely yeah, and unfortunately that's not the case. But I know Well, I don't know what to do about it.

Speaker 1: 40:57

It's just. There are no solutions here.

Speaker 2: 41:00

It's not a good job, it's not, but if you can find help, you need to. Absolutely yeah, and especially during the holidays, when everything is yeah, everything's just so heightened and it's a pre-gaming Big yes, it's a big excitement, and then let down, and then You're with all these people. There's over-stimulation and then none. You know. Yes, up and down.

Speaker 1: 41:26

Extremes or us.

Speaker 2: 41:27

Yes, yes, absolutely All right. All right. Well, I feel like that was a very depressing episode, but I mean it's kind of apropos How's that new grandbaby my? Grandbaby is amazing, good she is.

Speaker 1: 41:47

She is, there's your silver lining sister.

Speaker 2: 41:51

I know there is. She is so amazing. I literally held her for hours this weekend during Christmas time. Good my God, there's nothing like holding a baby. Oh, I'm happy, I'm happy.

Speaker 1: 42:02

No, absolutely Absolutely not For me.

Speaker 2: 42:09

Oh, it just makes you happy and have all the feels. I love it.

Speaker 1: 42:13

Nope, nope, definitely.

Speaker 2: 42:17

Nope, Okay Well we All right.

Speaker 1: 42:21

I'm glad you're enjoying her. You're amazing.

Speaker 2: 42:23

I do, I do, I love her, all right A lot.

Speaker 1: 42:26

Yeah, okay, well, take care of you. I love you and we'll chat about it. Love you.

Speaker 2: 42:31

Have a fantastic trip. Thanks All. Right Bye, get And바baby. Çocukpectorcom.