As the chill of Oklahoma's winter nipped at my heels, I couldn't help but reflect on the unspoken trials of life's latter chapters. There's a certain rawness to this discussion, as we peel back the curtain on the physical and societal challenges faced by those of us cresting over the 40-year mark. We’re not just talking lack of sleep here, friends; we're delving into the stark realities of healthcare disparities, gender biases in pain management, and the ever-looming anxiety of retirement security.
Ever feel like the pressure to succeed is crushing the spirit of our youth? That's the very heart of our conversation, where we expose the pervasive fear of failure amplified by the picture-perfect illusions cast by social media. I share a slice of my life, my hesitations about flaunting successes, and the deeper implications of chasing those 'likes.' Together, we celebrate the art of stumbling, the elegance of the phrase "I don't know," and the hidden strength in vulnerability – all through a tapestry woven from our personal stories and earnest admissions.
Amidst heartfelt narratives and empathic exchanges, we tackle the conundrum of external validation, dissecting the psychological tug-of-war between online interactions and our intrinsic self-worth. There's a treasure trove of insight on fostering support networks, the anchoring power of family, and the transformative moments that can arise from our darkest mistakes. So, join us as we navigate these waters, sharing laughter and the profound realizations that come with embracing our own humanity.
Thanks for listening!
As the chill of Oklahoma's winter nipped at my heels, I couldn't help but reflect on the unspoken trials of life's latter chapters. There's a certain rawness to this discussion, as we peel back the curtain on the physical and societal challenges faced by those of us cresting over the 40-year mark. We’re not just talking lack of sleep here, friends; we're delving into the stark realities of healthcare disparities, gender biases in pain management, and the ever-looming anxiety of retirement security.
Ever feel like the pressure to succeed is crushing the spirit of our youth? That's the very heart of our conversation, where we expose the pervasive fear of failure amplified by the picture-perfect illusions cast by social media. I share a slice of my life, my hesitations about flaunting successes, and the deeper implications of chasing those 'likes.' Together, we celebrate the art of stumbling, the elegance of the phrase "I don't know," and the hidden strength in vulnerability – all through a tapestry woven from our personal stories and earnest admissions.
Amidst heartfelt narratives and empathic exchanges, we tackle the conundrum of external validation, dissecting the psychological tug-of-war between online interactions and our intrinsic self-worth. There's a treasure trove of insight on fostering support networks, the anchoring power of family, and the transformative moments that can arise from our darkest mistakes. So, join us as we navigate these waters, sharing laughter and the profound realizations that come with embracing our own humanity.
Thanks for listening!
Hi Liz.
Speaker 2:Hi Rachel.
Speaker 1:What's up?
Speaker 2:How's your day?
Speaker 1:It's not too bad. I have nothing to complain about. I did not sleep, but that's just far and parcel for the fucking course Once you turn 40, apparently.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's no good? Well, it's no good. It's not good, it's not good. Welcome to our new reality, folks, where you work as a zombie after 40.
Speaker 2:So if you got any shit to get done get it done before you turn 40.
Speaker 1:After you turn 40. Your shit is like I mean, yeah, I can go do everything, but I am constantly in zombie mode. So, yep, I feel that week Clotsey face.
Speaker 2:It sucked. Yeah, well, it sucked. I had a great fall, a great trip, a great trip, and so, anyway, I'm doing okay, but I'm still sore as hell From falling and landing, I don't know, on the fence, on the ground, hit multiple things. So anyway, but I am better every day, not quite so sore. So I guess that's a good thing, but I have, I'm reminded of how hard it is on your body when you fall. Yeah, I swear to God, I'm like, wow, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Hello, ground Nice to meet you. Well, you were probably trying to go quicker because it was cold.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was freaking cold and I was freezing my ass off.
Speaker 1:Okay, you're in Oklahoma. The temperatures have been how far below?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I don't know, it's been been below zero, but currently it's not below zero, it's like 35. So that's actually quite warm for right now. Balm balmy, balmy, yeah, but it's been below zero and like at freezing temperatures, and we had freezing rain Sunday night and so everything froze and that was pretty like the roads were bad. I didn't even go out yesterday and I felt like I accomplished nothing and it was a really shitty day because I got nothing done. So, anyway, but that's how I feel. If I don't, if I don't go to work or go do something, I just feel like it was a wasted day, even though there's a lot of things.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of hobbies that people over 40 do that don't involve falling which are like reading, writing. But moms here, youtube movies are a big one. I hear television.
Speaker 2:I can't see it in much of a movie.
Speaker 1:Oh, apparently television is really popular among people over 40. I don't know, I wouldn't know, but I've heard just saying there are obvious.
Speaker 2:I watch a lot of TV, but I don't actually watch. It's called listening. I listen, yes, do a lot of TV. It's background noise, so yeah, anyway, but today I also. Well, I got up pretty early and I went to work for a couple hours and got some stuff done and then came back home because mom's still here. She leaves tomorrow, so that's, our mother is visiting you. I'm supposed to be off until well. I'm supposed to be off on Tuesdays generally, but since I didn't work yesterday, I was like I should go to work this morning and get some stuff done, which I did. There was nobody there, so it's kind of nice, but didn't get as much as I wanted to, and it's fine, it's fine, everything's fine, we're all fine.
Speaker 1:We really don't have much to complain about, except for the word we're the richest country in the world and we don't have medical benefits or childcare or retirement, any safety, health net. Yeah, we're fine, Everything's fine. This is literally. I'm like how much more bullshit can the politics take over before every goddamn American like probably 65% or more are just going to overthrow the government? In terms of, like, we don't have basic fucking human rights here. Like, and I get it.
Speaker 2:Okay, you want to hear what you don't want to hear what I read this week. I do, so there's this new thing. So if you're female and you want to get an IUD, your insurance will not cover an anesthetic.
Speaker 1:I never had an anesthetic with an IUD, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Okay, so many women find it extremely painful to get an IUD.
Speaker 1:It is extremely painful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've never had one, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:But I read four, all of which self. Well, all but one, three of them self-rejected, which is also very fucking painful. So it's similar to childbirth and because it's basically the same pathway.
Speaker 2:Well, now they're having. They've come up with an IUD for men. Guess what Men are allowed to get an anesthetic. Of course it's covered.
Speaker 1:Well, our pain is not real.
Speaker 2:Right, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:It's all a distraction. It's all a distraction in your head. It's all no I just mean all this bullshit around that stuff is all a distraction away from everything we don't have medical.
Speaker 1:We don't have healthcare benefits. We don't write all the things that we don't have. We can't pay our teachers. Nobody's getting a good education. Education at higher level and even lower is all overblown. Nobody's getting a good education. We're not paying our teachers. It's just bullshit. And it comes down to how much are you willing to put up with politics and being distracted by this shit? I mean, when people vote constantly against their own interests, at some point they're going to have to realize I can't pay my bills and I don't have health benefits and I'm in the shitter because I have medical bills and my daughter needs an IUD or an abortion or a medically necessary abortion even it's just abortion care. It doesn't really mean anything that the right wing and I say that because that's what it is the right wing tells you it is. That's bullshit. Yes, it's a gender that is way beyond what you and I know and it's deep, and I'm not even going down that rabbit hole because it's deep on bulls-in.
Speaker 2:It's not. It's too much.
Speaker 1:It is Well, it's a distraction from. We could do a lot about this. We're a rich country and people are just acting against their own interests, which is bullshit, Anyway for sure. Well, how are you feeling now?
Speaker 2:I can get up and down easier. That's important functional movement. I do think I messed my shoulder a little bit, which I was thinking. I didn't mess my shoulder up because yesterday it wasn't hurting, but last night it was the robbing. But hopefully it's not messed up where it's a permanent thing. Yeah, hopefully it's just a cold muscle and I'll be fine, yeah, so anyway, we'll see.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, and we've got. We've got some things that are happening. Should we kind of? I don't think we need to blow the whole load here and say exactly what's happening, but I think we should talk a little bit about, like, a couple of things that are going on.
Speaker 2:So we have.
Speaker 1:Let's say that we've got some really, really good, interesting perspective things happening with the book. We have a couple really we'll say higher profile Podcast collaborations that we're working on that are going to be going down this week, which we will give you more details soon, as soon as we're allowed to, after we're allowed, yeah, to release those out. So that's some exciting stuff for the pod. And then what else is going on like news wise? We still haven't figured out the music quite yet, but it is in the works.
Speaker 2:My kids say that you should just leave it because it's so bad. It's good. That's what they say. They don't change it, it's perfect.
Speaker 1:It's hilarious. It's not even hilarious. It should be embarrassing, but I don't have that gene, so it's not embarrassing to me, but it's so bad.
Speaker 2:It might be so bad, yeah, amazing.
Speaker 1:And what's our sort of topics for this week.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:So I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know, I don't know the topic came, though, from it's kind of a previous episode. We covered this a little bit when we talked about we just talked about.
Speaker 1:it Wasn't like the whole thing, but it kind of was like kids and being women and mothers. That's where. That's where it kind of developed out of. And then we're noticing a more Clear pathway or pattern that keeps occurring and particularly in Like our generation and anyone below us. That we keep noticing happens more often than we think and is also kind of paralyzing In terms of life progression and moving forward and doing things and making things happen and how that happens and and then we started to think about it when we covered it in the prior podcast, which was mothers or you know, being a mother and having kids and women, and that was the podcast.
Speaker 2:Right, it was about. I think it was women.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure I'm not a hundred percent We've done. And then you sense, and then it. It was basically kind of the idea that our kids have a fear of failure. And then we were like I don't know, I don't know what it is that we're talking about. And we were like I don't know what it is that we're talking about. We're talking about whether they're life choices or.
Speaker 1:Day to day life, executive function, where they were just kind of In limbo and scared to fail, so they weren't making choices, which is a choice. And so when we were talking about that on a prior conversation you and I had over a phone call, we were like that's the topic, we should discuss it in terms of, like, what does that mean for them? And I think that's where where this part for me, when I kind of thought about a little bit, what is the first part of culture? Mm, hmm, colt, colt. And then our culture tells young people that if they fail, our culture meaning social media, social media inputs, and then we're talking about the television, film, right, All of the indicators to them tell them that if they fail they are wrong and that they have, like, done the made the wrong choice If they fail.
Speaker 2:And that is the other day Put a thing on it's top, yeah. And then we're talking about the social media Meme on on social the other day and it said and is this from this young girl? And I don't really know her, but she said If you're over 40, give me one piece of advice To younger people. And I said don't be afraid to make mistakes. Yeah, but I think that every young person you know I think that's the way to do it People are a you're afraid to make mistakes, people are afraid to jump in and do something because they might fail.
Speaker 2:They don't know what the outcome will be. They're like I don't. I don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:Well, who cares? Okay, so, and there are some times you need to care, but not always, not always. I live in Southern California, so everyone I see on social media or like even within my friend, or like I've been on social media, I've been on social media for a long time, I've been on social media for a long time and I think they're like what's wrong with you? They're doing this giant bike ride, they're going on this massive hike. They're doing this massive, monumental, like Life altering experience that's just like so empowering and makes them feel amazing. And blah, blah, fucking blah. And I'm so sick of it. I'm like I want to see when you're in bed, because your fucking muscles are ripped and sore and swollen and you know your body is just wrecked from all this training You've been doing. But of course, do they post those? No Same thing.
Speaker 2:I did. It's not a reality. Social media no for.
Speaker 1:January I did a 100 pushups a day challenge, right For a fundraiser for St Jude's hospital. Help the kids. Blah, blah, fucking blah. I'm like I can do 100 pushups a day. It's not that big of a deal. Well, and I unsubscribed immediately to the post on that Facebook page because they have Facebook page.
Speaker 1:So everybody guess what they're doing. They're not. I mean, there was a couple posts where like can you guys just give me some tips about how to get through it? How do I do it? The first couple of days and I was like that's great, that's helpful, it's positive, you know. But at the same time I'm like well, if you signed up for a fucking hundred pushups a day challenge, you should kind of figure that shit out on your own and know that you're in for something Great If you get some feedback from other people. It's not an expert, but hey, you know, use whatever works for you and I support that. But you know, what I end up seeing is some guy doing a one arm pushup yeah, with his arm extended overhead, and I'm like how the fuck does that help anyone? I'm sorry, all you're doing is bragging about you doing a one arm fucking pushup, when the whole entire contest was just for a hundred.
Speaker 1:Nobody said any rules about how it was supposed to be done, but all of a sudden we got bragger McBragger face up there trying to show he's doing above and beyond whatever the fuck ever, and so then everybody puts their fucking standards at that level, and it's like that's not attainable for everyone.
Speaker 2:So it's not cares.
Speaker 1:Go off into your delusional atmosphere and go talk to someone who's getting ready for a fucking you know, three, three part marathon. Fuck you. It doesn't make sense in reality and that's the hard part is we don't have any propaganda training in our schools. Kids don't know that that's all bullshit. They just get handed to them, you know at five years old, and they think that that's normal. It's not fucking normal.
Speaker 1:Normal is you have down days. You have days when you fall flat on your face and fall into the chain link fence and you hurt. And that is reality.
Speaker 2:That's the reality. It's my reality anyway. But yes, like it is, everybody posts only the good things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's bullshit.
Speaker 2:Yeah it is bullshit, because people are not doing that good. I mean, oh my gosh. I barely post on social media, to be quite honest, because you know it's like first of all, when I post something positive, I feel like am I trying to impress somebody? And I know it's something good.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm not trying to brag or, you know, talk about something. No, I posted stuff like that before. And I look back and the memories come up and I'm like, oh my God, that was so like dick. Like when I get a new car or something, and you're like, look at my new car, Well, who fucking cares? Not everybody can get a new car.
Speaker 1:Not everybody can get a new car.
Speaker 2:Not everybody can afford a new car.
Speaker 1:It's just a thing. It's not your life, yeah, and it doesn't matter in the whole big scheme of things. It matters if you were nice to people, if you're humble, if you're kind, all the other things that actually fucking matter in this whole screwed up universe. Yeah, but our culture puts so much pressure on these kids and I say these kids meeting anyone younger than 40. Four, I'm 44. My doctor asked me that the other day. She was like, and she was young. I went to the allergy doc yesterday and she was like, how old are you? And I was like 40. I was like what? I was like, oh, this is, this is just turned 45. I'm 44. I'm 44.
Speaker 1:I was like at a certain age you just don't fucking care, nor do you keep track anymore. All the fucks that I had to give, they're gone so yes, I don't even remember.
Speaker 2:Actually, I remember. Do you remember, though? And my kids have done this to me. Let me think about it. I'm literally doing that, and you're like wait a minute. Oh, am I I?
Speaker 1:don't know, it's a mystery, I know.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I was born in like 1977, 78. Counting. You know it's crazy, it just doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I think that's another thing too. Like I do think like the younger generation is kind of cool, like I really respect them a lot for like they're, they are kinder, I think they're kinder. Yes, I believe that 100% because I think the world's been a lot harder for them and they understand that they empathically get it that you do need.
Speaker 2:Well, it's also harder because of social media.
Speaker 1:Yes, and but I do. I think I do have a lot of hope and I do really respect them and I think, oh my God, it's so much harder for you than it was for us because we didn't have any of that. We didn't have television, we didn't have any of that shit to deal with. I mean, we had a lot of shit of people telling us that we were less than or we were not as good, and that was horribly traumatizing for us, but we didn't have it pushed in our face every single day from comparing ourselves to other people. And you and I did. That's, that's a lie. You and I did.
Speaker 1:But it wasn't mass media, it wasn't our heroes, it wasn't our, you know, it wasn't our teachers, our peers, it wasn't. It was coming from a very specific line of authority which we knew about it and it was coming constantly. But we didn't know, right, we didn't know. So the theme is I don't know, and what does that mean? So what does that mean, liz? What does it mean? When we say I don't know, it means we're talking about yeah you're talking about.
Speaker 2:You're unsure, you do not have the answer, you know. I think that people would probably be better to say I don't know, rather than to say bullshit sometimes, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think that there's power in that. So I have two, two examples. One's really quick, the other one's a little bit longer. One example of I don't know is when I went back to school and I went back to school late in life but I knew exactly what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1:But one of my favorite professors she was a favorite at the time, but one of the reasons why she was a favorite is that she recognized that I worked really hard. And the second thing was that she said when you would ask a question she would say or no. In the very beginning of the course she said I will try and get you the best information I have available. If I don't have the information, then I will tell you I don't know and I will try and direct you to the right person that needs to get you that information. Nice, and for that I just was like I knew immediately. I had more respect for her immediately Because it told me she was gonna do her best. But she also was aware that she didn't have all the facts, the answers, yeah, and that if she didn't, then she would do her best to help me out with that, and that is what a teacher is supposed to do.
Speaker 1:So that was my first example of that yeah, do on a regular basis. And it was talking about the medical field and how, over the past, like 40, 50 years, especially like 50 years ago so 50 years ago, 1970s, right Doctors were trained to never admit mistakes.
Speaker 2:No, I believe that.
Speaker 1:OK, so they were told.
Speaker 2:I believe that's still probably true.
Speaker 1:It is Six percent of hospitals now have taken on the framework that if you make a mistake, you admit it, you tell them what happened and you help them out through that and you assist them. So you offer them trauma support, trauma counseling, medical opportunities or things to fix the problem medically. You offer them compensation, you work with them through the problem and you admit the mistake.
Speaker 2:Six percent of hospitals I was going to say did you say 60? Because I'm pretty sure that's wrong.
Speaker 1:Six percent of hospitals in the United States have taken on this model.
Speaker 2:OK, I make more sense.
Speaker 1:The other 94 percent are still operating and this is a part of the problem with our medical expenses and why it's so expensive here have decided that that is not feasible and that that would cost them too much money. Meanwhile, what they are stuck with is deny, deny, deny. We didn't make a mistake. And then it goes through litigation. Their malpractice insurance goes through the roof and then people have to settle out of court. The people who were victimized do not get to talk about it because nine times out of 10 of those 94 percent of the hospitals that go into this settlement can't. They have to sign an NDA where they can't tell you what happened. So that's why there's no accountability. The doctors don't have to admit their mistakes. Our insurance prices go through the roof. They're malpractice because their malpractice insurance goes through the roof and nobody ever figures out what the root of the problem is.
Speaker 1:And this was based on a podcast where it was talking about companies big, major companies that allow people to make mistakes and then let their employees learn from these mistakes. And it was like the more mistakes people made, the more quickly their companies learned how to do better. And that is just a simple fact. I tell my students all the time in classes. Please fail. Be afraid to fail. I put up a safety net for you. If you screw entirely up on assignment, it's not going to affect your grade that much. Be afraid to fail. Screw it up Like completely fall on your face, Don't be afraid to fail.
Speaker 1:Yes, Fall flat on your face and make it a big, huge fucking mistake, because this is a low risk environment. Your grade is not going to be that much impacted. Just do it Right and that's how you learn. Mm, hmm. That is how you learn, those are my two examples of that Like in the real world, right, right In the real world, but we're not given that opportunity. I don't think a lot.
Speaker 2:No, and people are so quick to judge you too if you fail, mm. Hmm, I know myself. So I've like done things many times. I've joined, you know like MLM companies and sold the shit out of stuff, done things like that. But I feel like most people, if somebody does that, I'm like good for you, go for it. You know what I mean. Let them do their thing like whatever. It's great. I have done like I don't know seven or eight different ones. Try them out, love. Some of them still use their stuff. Some of them are just not active, you know, but people judge that so harshly and they're just like literally sitting there waiting for you to fail. So when you fail, they'll be like I told you. So you know what I mean and why. Why do you have to do that? Because there's no, there's absolutely no reason. But I haven't.
Speaker 2:I have always always go into things with like, yes, I may fail, I may not do it, I may do really well. I mean one of the companies I did really well and made quite a bit of money, won trips, won all kinds of things, and I just decided it wasn't for me to do anymore. It just too much because I take on a lot, but I could have probably been extremely successful with that. I just lost my passion for it so I had to switch to something else. But I have failed so many times at things, many, many times. But I don't think I go into something. I'm always like, I always have this like positive, like this is going to be the best thing ever. You know what I mean, because I'm not I guess I'm not afraid to fall flat on my face, but I feel like most people are. I've fallen flat on my face many times.
Speaker 1:Well, you're talking about, you actually got to it, which is the root of it, Like when you, when you don't know right. When you don't know, and that's what I think. It's almost not a fear of failing, it's a fair, it's a fear of being judged for failing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that a hundred percent is it.
Speaker 1:It's not that they're afraid to fail, they're not given the opportunity to do it without judgment, yes for sure, from their peers, from their parents, from their social networks, from, you know, society at large, the culture, and that's probably the root of it. More than just failing, like, if you're going to fail, just do it spectacularly and then fucking own it. And then I mean that's my, that's my philosophy, yeah, and I've done it many times too Absolutely. And then I'm like, well, I did that, yes, I did. Yeah, absolutely, you're going to judge me? Great, you're not my friend anymore. Go the fuck to hell, cause that's a great way to like get rid of your friends list. Quite honestly, if they, if they sit there and they are on their fucking high horse and they're like, yeah, you screwed up and guess what, fuck you and you're an asshole and I can't believe you did that. And right, I'm not fucking about. That's great, you go straight to the bottom of the list in terms of my friends. No problem there.
Speaker 1:That's a great way to weed them out. You know the ones that come to you and say I'm so sorry that happened. How can I help Mm? Hmm, those are the ones you keep around.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm really sorry you went through that. That sounds awful Is there anything I can do to make it better. You know how can I?
Speaker 1:support you as a friend in this scenario. Mm, hmm, and, and that goes. You know it's so stupid, liz, it's so stupid. But it goes back to the fucking like button on Facebook and oh my God, oh my God, yes, okay, yes, okay. It goes right back to that, because we go to the positive, we're like oh yeah, I got like a hundred likes. Yes, who fucking cares when you fall flat on your face and you go do something stupid, you know, and maybe potentially screw up your life a little bit, how many fucking likes do you get on that? Yeah, well then, when you get a like there, you should be like yep, that's my friend.
Speaker 2:Yep, well, randy and I talked about that the other day because we were talking about with the social media and the fear of failure and all these things that, like kids same scenario, I mean younger people Um rely on there can be. You can post, you know they'll post a photo of themselves feeling fabulous. You know they're like oh my God, I'm feeling myself right now. I'm posting a picture and they'll be like 400 people that are like you look amazing, you're stunning. Blah, blah, blah. And there's two people and one of them's like you're fat, I hate those shoes.
Speaker 2:You know, those are the comments that they focus on and that is literally human nature. I think most people do that, but you forget all the amazing comments. The other thing that I know is that people get so offended when people they don't get enough likes or loves or whatever on their posts, they get offended. Maybe someone didn't even see it in their feed, but like they're instantly like oh so and so didn't like my post, or so and so didn't do this, or, you know, and it has no reflection on you. No, that is their perception.
Speaker 2:Well that is their yes, they're. What they are taking as how good they are or how important they are is likes and things like that, and that has nothing to do with it, and some people are just assholes, you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, but that's taking out like the human face to face element, and of course COVID screwed us up a lot with that, because we really only had like, okay, whatever is out there online, you know we can, you know sort of connect to Sure, but it really takes out that element of judging your body language and your facial expression and understanding. Well, that person who didn't like your post you know had a really shitty day and they fell on the concrete and almost hit their head into a chain link fence and their dog died, and you know it takes out. So then they're judging their friend for not liking their post, which is without having that interaction face to face, a human element of going.
Speaker 1:I'm really sorry I missed your post. I didn't see it.
Speaker 2:Right, I fell down, I broke my hip and that's generally the thing. There's nobody's intentionally being vindictive or hateful or anything like that. I mean, obviously there's horrible people in the world, but generally it's liking to a whole, to a whole, nother level, not a purpose, where they're?
Speaker 1:they're instantly judging, based on a non-action, a non-action, the non-action, and then also instantly judging that your character is above and beyond based on an action of clicking a, a liked, you know, check, or a heart or whatever. And the actions that we need to really pay attention to, which I think is where kids are missing out on failing, is that the actions that happen after you fail are the ones you should pay attention to from your friends. So if you do get into a hard spot, then you should be like listening to what, what are they doing? How are they supporting me after I fail? But there's such a high bar for you can fail that they don't even get the opportunity to do that, and that brings up so much pressure and stress about failing in the first place. Yeah, it's like okay, well then you're not even giving yourself the opportunity to fail and see who really does care about you For sure? I don't know For sure. How do they, how do they combat that? Fail, fail frequently, I don't know, fail frequently, fail honestly.
Speaker 2:No, but just be okay with it. Like give yourself some grace to like.
Speaker 1:Well, that's not helpful, though, Because you can't be okay. You can't be okay with it if you feel all that stress and that pressure, right. So what is helpful for them, for anyone to hear in terms of failing? But what if you started slowly, like fail, what's it, what's this? I think there's small fails and there's big fails, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, they're sure there is. You know, if you spent $5 investing in something and it didn't work out, that's a big fail. If you go spend a hundred grand for you know, or 10 grand for most people, that's a bigger one In just that's in general, with just like investment, in putting like a cash option on it, but say you decide to jump into some kind of a charity, you know, and invest, yeah, invest your time or something like that, and you go in there and it is something that is definitely not for you and you, you know, it just like doesn't work out. It's okay to step back and say, well, maybe this isn't for me, let me do something else. I'm just trying to think of things that are. I mean, there's so many things you can mail. I mean people are scared to make a decision of like. This is the.
Speaker 2:For instance, I had a client that had four weeks off and he was going to overseas, for he had a trip, for it was one of those not exchange learning overseas, what is that called Study abroad? Okay, so he had a study abroad trip. Well, he had two of them in the span of six weeks, so it was a four week thing. There was two weeks in between and instead of because he couldn't decide where would be the best place to go in between those two weeks, he just came all the way back and then went back for another two weeks because he was afraid he would pick the wrong place or the wrong thing. And I was just like I think at that point there's not a wrong place, like just enjoy it. So I just think like every little decision is so challenging and it's so hard to make sometimes, but I don't think that you should be so scared, even if you don't know the outcome, because most of the time you're not gonna know the outcome. Right, I think there's many things in life that are 100% sure.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not, because you don't know if you're gonna walk out of your house and get hit by a bus. No, so there's a balance, though, and I think you're getting at something that's really important in terms of this topic. Is that okay? Another, for instance let's use the hypothetical I was talking about taking a weekend trip Okay, so when I have vacation, I always have a little bit of a list of things Like how much time do I have, right? How much money do I have? I don't get paid time off like you, so how much can I afford to lose, right In terms of income and without?
Speaker 1:paid time off all the European and other socialist governments right now are squirming because they're like how the fuck do you not get required? They require it. They require that you take a month off a year, you know anyway. So you have to balance out that. Then you also have to balance out Like, for instance, if I wanted to go to Vietnam. It's a 24 hour pretty much travel time, no matter what.
Speaker 1:I mean, even if you got like really good direct flights, it's gonna be 24 hours there, 24 hours back. That's two days off already, so I could not take a weekend trip to Vietnam, right. I would be there, grab a bowl of some soup and then come back. So the time invested, the energy right and the money wouldn't justify that travel, unless I really had a desire to be at 10,000 feet for 48 hours right, and you really wanted just one bowl of soup.
Speaker 1:Strong desire for both would be the only two things that would justify that trip right.
Speaker 1:So you and I think that there's like a reasoning thing that is missing here. So, like your client, for instance, had a reasoning issue, he couldn't reason that one place would be better than the other, because he couldn't figure out like if you would be screwed if you went somewhere not realizing that well, the time and effort it takes you to get all the way back and then go all the way there is precluding you from any other experience you might get to have that would be beneficial to you, based on his fear of being judged for making the wrong choice, Whereas if it's a weekend trip from here and I wanna go to Mexico and get a taco, which.
Speaker 1:I did two and a half weeks ago. It's 30 minute drive to the border. You walk over, you go get tacos relatively easy, cheap, inexpensive, great tacos, well worth a 30 minute drive. You get the tacos, you hang out, you walk around, you maybe pick up some illegal Cuban cigars. I mean, this is all right, there's no downside here because it's just a weekend trip. It's just a day I can get a couple, go to a couple breweries, check out and see what they have, maybe get another taco or a churro, and then come back with relatively little time lost, very little money lost, right. Little effort lost because it's only 30 minutes away, right.
Speaker 1:So there's a time, there's a reasoning, right. There's a reasoning behind that which is like where your brain works. So if your brain doesn't work that way, to reason, fear aside, put the fear aside. Everyone I know. I tell them I go to Mexico and they're like why are you going to Mexico? Oh my God, that's so safe. Why do you know me? The cartels are gonna kidnap you. You're blind and blue-eyed, what the fuck? And I'm like, literally it's safer than walking down the streets of Oakland, california.
Speaker 1:It is safer than that and I don't know what your problem is. So take the fear out of it, fear of being judged, fear of failing and then look at those things. Where's my time at what is valuable to me? Is it valuable to me to go experience tacos in another country, 30 minutes away, and get some different beers that I would never have the opportunity to experience? So then they're pricing their fear over their values.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is 100% it Is. You have to set the fear aside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, is it the fear of failing or is it the fear of being judged for failing? And those are-.
Speaker 2:Fear of I don't know too. It's the fear of all of those things being judged failing.
Speaker 1:You're unsure of what's gonna happen, all of those and, to be quite honest, this generation, like roommate one through four, they at this time in their life, all of them, because they're all between 20 and 30. This should be the most experimental, like fearless times of their life, because they're young, they're healthy, they'll bounce back if they fall down and hit their head in a chain-leaf fence. They are you keep me at referencing. It's funny. You've been clumsy as far as your whole life. Yeah, it's for my entire life, correct? I've been in. So am I? Just in weirder spots like my hands and shit my feet, but you've been. They should be at the time in their life, right now, where they are fearless, not a fucking like. They should feel invincible. This is the time yeah, but they don't. Roommate four did once and remember that Her first year at school and she rented the quad, the four by four, and then took it under the dunes and rolled it with her I can't remember this.
Speaker 1:Oh, her first year at school she went with her boyfriend and another girlfriend and they rented it a four by four and went out to the desert and rolled it had an accident.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I remember you telling me about it, and then she called me, but you know what?
Speaker 1:the first thing she said to me was I had an accident on her.
Speaker 2:No, oh, mom don't freak out, mom don't be mad.
Speaker 1:Why? Why would you say that? Right, because she was afraid that I was going to be angry and judge her for doing this thing.
Speaker 2:That was absolutely appropriate for her age Like yeah, but you were freaking out a bit. No, I?
Speaker 1:didn't freak out. I said no, I didn't Not on that phone call.
Speaker 2:Okay, not on the phone call Okay.
Speaker 1:To you. Absolutely. I was like how am I fucking gonna get out there? And I don't know. She's okay and right, no. On that phone call I said is everyone okay?
Speaker 2:Right Great.
Speaker 1:Okay, If everyone is alive and upright and walking, go to the nearest hospital. You know, get everyone checked out, Right? I was very calm, very collected, Just like, okay, that happened, Great. And I said you know whose insurance was on the signature, you know after, after they went to the hospital. Yeah, I was like I don't want to hear from you until you get everyone in that car to the hospital. Go get them checked out. Let's make sure everybody's okay first, and then we'll talk about what happened.
Speaker 1:And then yeah then I freaked out a little bit because I was like wait, you didn't put your, you didn't sign your name on the friggin you know insurance waiver. I was like you're not that dumb. But you know had she done that, we would have dealt with it, right. Yeah, that was well well, after you know, yeah, the. Thing.
Speaker 2:So, anyway I think, I think, um, and I think more so, teenage years you have a little bit less. I guess it's anxiety and inhibitions for like doing crazy stuff, but I think that I never lost that. But okay, I know. But I think that, um, a lot of people do lose that, unless they're intoxicated or you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can confirm, um, and I would say I can do it. Well, no intoxication is necessary, but I do think that that's part of like, because we grew up that way and so afraid of not getting in trouble for everything.
Speaker 1:We got in trouble for everything. Yeah, you were more afraid of it than I was. Yeah, and you, you did carry that with you a lot longer than I did and I think you still do. I never carried that with me and was just like consequences, sure Consequences, um, and, and I never carried that with me. Well, okay, I think I probably had a line. You know at some, at some level, I had a line. I don't know where it was. I never found it, but I still haven't. Um, but it's that if you close your mind and you feel, I think of it as being inside a little box. Um, temple Grandin, uh, was autistic and she developed a?
Speaker 1:Uh, a system for slaughter houses in which the cows would go through a circle of um walled enclosures, in which at the end of the walled enclosure, they would be squeezed tightly and then they would go into the slaughter house and be butchered. What she showed was that that lowered their stress hormone, right, so that as they got closer to being slaughtered, the stress hormone would be less in their body and then, as the meat was right butchered, then the stress hormone was lower. It would cause less tension in the muscles, less right, and so the meat was better. The reason she's.
Speaker 1:yeah, the reason she figured that out was because she was autistic and she had massive anxiety about being around people and being in public places and or being touched. So when she got anxiety, she would. She made an enclosure for herself and it was like a body. It was like a gravity blanket today, Like people use gravity blankets for anti anxiety and for sleep and stuff.
Speaker 1:Right, and it would basically just yes, push her into this little like pressure zone that pulled the pressure inside their bodies Right. Same thing with the cows going in that like circular pathway. And what kids don't realize and I think this goes to the how to is that the pressure that you're feeling from outside has nothing to do with the inside. And that's like where we need to focus on is like how does it make you feel when you let the outside forces contract you and make you smaller fear?
Speaker 2:It makes them feel horrible, which is why they're afraid to do anything.
Speaker 1:Fear is what that is. Yes, so the fear from outside sources is making you feel smaller, and they need to like start focusing on okay, I know that, I know that that's what happens, but what makes me feel better on the inside, and it's just so hard for them to like figure that out right now. So, that idea of the stress hormone going up higher based on outside sources versus inside sources, right is to like go internal, like go inside and figure out. What is it that? Why do you need the likes?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Why do you need?
Speaker 2:the it is. It's like a confirmation. Why do you need that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, why do you need that? So if you can't figure out the why do you need it? Then it's absolutely fucking useless for you to be putting any value on that.
Speaker 2:Any value on it. I agree with that 100%, but I do know that it is definitely a problem.
Speaker 1:It's toxic it's toxic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a definite yes.
Speaker 1:It's toxic and it doesn't matter In the whole big scheme of things. You know, we live, we die, we reproduce, maybe you know, yeah, but how do you explain that?
Speaker 2:that it doesn't matter to somebody, that it does matter to you?
Speaker 1:Well, because they were putting all their eggs in the wrong basket. And it's like you know what Fail, fail eriously, fail frenetically, fail fabulously. We can think of all the F's alliterations that we could do with that. But fail, fail, fabulously, fail, fabulously Fail. Animals Role Fail, masse illnesses Fail, att興 doses Fail, pain forgivements Fail, happiness marks Fail, sadness Failheure parasitions Fail, reputation. Car Wash Fail, encountered entrepreneur Thomas V duo Failwaukee licence Fail, reputation car Pinky Fail, toi Fail achievement car Hyd에서. I'm not gonna be fast, it's all good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, got mail at the door or something Package.
Speaker 1:Yeah, package, yeah, anyway, yeah, fail, fabulously Fail, furiously Fail all the time. And then keep track of your likes and then you know you need to be fearless.
Speaker 2:You know, be Be unafraid to fail. Don't be. Also, don't be afraid of not knowing how to handle a situation or how to how something's going to turn out, or don't be afraid of doing something If you don't know how it will turn out.
Speaker 1:You know, and we speak from I'm going to put this out there because it's true we speak from a place where, unfortunately, there's some kids out there. I don't know why. I'm on the foster kid thing right now, but there's some foster kids that don't have a strong family unit. If they do fail, that is really potentially dangerous. Yeah, they actually run into some things. But I'm going to say, speaking for probably 90% of kids, young adults in the US, you probably do have a somewhat social net. You probably have either a mom, either a dad, either a stepdad, either a stepmom, a sibling, an aunt, a cousin, who they are your safety net. They are going to reach out and they are going to help you. You might even have a chosen family. They're like a foster kid that has some people. What are you doing? I have gum stuck on my shirt.
Speaker 2:You're like picky.
Speaker 1:Well, I've been trying to put a piece of gum on it and pick it off for the last five minutes now and it won't come off. It's synthetic fabric and it's like fuck, synthetic fabrics. Anyway, that's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about foster kids and people who don't have as much of a social net as we do. Our family is fucked up, every family is fucked up. Okay, but we do. I know.
Speaker 1:If I failed phenomenally and did something so dumb still there, so dumb that I could potentially move in with you for a couple of months and regain my life back, you know what I mean. Like start again, same for you. I'm like, yeah, move in here, we're sleeping on a full bed, you're in the hammock, but I know I got your back, you got mine. So mom would be the same way and there's other family too right, that we can reach out to and that would be there for us. And then I think, well, is it our fault? But sorry, back to my original thought.
Speaker 1:There are some people that they don't have that and I recognize that and I am making that clear. But then, when we get deep into the thick of it, do have I failed? You know our kids' roommate one through four in thinking or allowing them to think that we won't have that social net, and I don't think that that's the case, but I don't think it's that they value it as much. They don't understand that if they really fucking needed it, you know, if one of them did something horrifying and, you know, screwed up their life big time, that we would still have their back Like yes, and that's the value of the like.
Speaker 1:I'm not liking you Right, you're my family. You have this intrinsic thing that's right here inside you. It came from you, you came out of your mom's vagina and it is a piece of who you are and that is more important than the fucking heart or the like, yeah, even though those are integral into our society. But there is a lot more value in knowing, yeah, I can fail, I can screw up big time, and if this goes right or left or down or up, you know I still have someone who's got my back and is going to support me.
Speaker 1:So the I don't know can be good If you have your values in the right place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. There's so many things I don't know. You know I don't, I don't know so many things.
Speaker 1:But I do think, I don't know, is the power for a good met.
Speaker 2:You don't know something.
Speaker 1:I think it's a powerful thing though.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:I do think it's a powerful thing. That medical example I gave you earlier is that yeah, and oh my God, it was so it it turned out well.
Speaker 2:But basically the doctor, and this was one of the 6% of the hospitals that did this and started doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what happened was a little kid came in and he had a procedure done. And basically the anesthesiologist gave him too much anesthesia, so what it did was temporarily put him in a coma, and so the doctor was like this is so bad, it's just so bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, basically, the kid did come out and he was normal and everything. But at the moment, of course, your parents are going to what the fuck Right? So the dad, his initial reaction was like how could you? You know? And he just right, all agro with you know, the doctor who came out and told them that that's what happened, here's what happened. You know this was a mistake, we know it, we're working on it, you know. And so the doctor was like, well, the nurse who and actually it was a, it wasn't an anesthesiologist the doctor didn't tell the nurse what dose to give the kid.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And so the nurse just went and did her thing, cause the doctor didn't say, and so it was the doctor's fault Because he didn't say, the nurse just did her best and kept going. So it put this kid in this coma and it was kind of a horrible situation. It turned out okay. It was a horrible situation and so it was like I don't know, I don't know if it was a good thing or not. Everybody was fine, but the kid was, you know, out of it for a while. Yeah, the, the dad went off on the doctor, lost his shit and it was just an agro maniac.
Speaker 1:The mom, when they finally let her, she didn't say anything. She went back to the room where the kid was and the same nurse who administered that Heavier dose of the kid was in the hospital. And the nurse was in the hospital and the nurse who had the procedure was in the room and she started to say I can't be here, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I made a mistake. You know it was my fault. And the mom just went over to the nurse and just gave her a hug and said no, you're the perfect person.
Speaker 1:You stay in this room and you take care of my kid, because she knew, but that nurse was probably the perfect person and in that hospital To make sure that her kid was going to be okay and that is exactly what we need more of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly it. And it's like heart wrenching to hear that as a mom To go oh my God, if that were my kid. But that's the exact appropriate response that we need to do Is go yeah, you made a mistake, but guess what I mean? I'm not sure. I'm not sure what I'm saying, but we learn from this. This is how we do it, and even in a I can't imagine like from the nurse's perspective, you know what she felt, but do you know how much she learned from that, how much she became a better empathetic person, a nurse a more critical thinker, a more detail oriented person.
Speaker 1:Because of that whole entire situation.
Speaker 1:How could you not? You know, you, you, you screwed up, you screwed up. But then to have that it's fine, take care of my kid, you know that happened to you is like that's where we need to be with I don't know. Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know I screwed up. I went ahead and did it anyway because it was what was necessary at the time. Yeah, we only go off of our decisions based on what limited information we have in this lifetime and we don't have a lot, so we don't know a lot of the times. But you just fucking forge forward and then you have to know that, hey, what is it? What is the time or the time? We don't know, and you don't need to know that. And I really need to know that. I'd be happy to know what time is the right time. I do know. I need to know what time is the right time.
Speaker 2:It's the right time. I need to know what time is the right time. Yeah, I need to know the time If there's a time when there are so many people behind you that got your back and every footfall that falls short you've got someone there to help you out.
Speaker 1:Hopefully, hopefully, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm like not everybody has that, but you know, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:That's why yeah, yeah, well, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Do we know? We don't know, for sure, I don't either.
Speaker 1:Anyway, okay, well, um all I know is that I don't know.
Speaker 2:Because I don't know what I'm doing next. But it's something I don't know either.
Speaker 1:All right, right. Well, let's wrap it up. Um, where can people find us?
Speaker 2:Um, Um we have Facebook and Instagram. Facebook sisters dot declassified. Instagram sisters underscore declassified. We're not super active on it, but you're welcome to send us a message through there. We try and upload our soundbites to that um weekly, but um feel free to send us a DM. Yeah, on everywhere you get your podcast and then podcasts, or Spotify, um, apple, wherever you get podcasts, all the things. And then our email is sisters, declassified at gmailcom. Send us questions, responses and we will Give you our best answer.
Speaker 1:Yep, and if we don't know.
Speaker 2:We don't know, we may not know but we will do our best. Okay, see you later. Bye.